Elika Jouibari: "Dozens of activists have made our image public; if nothing changes in Iran, we can't go back"

Three months after the start of the protests triggered by the murder of the young Kurdish woman, Mahsa Amini, Iran remains mired in revolts that are increasingly distant from the movements that preceded them in 2019 and 2021. The social and economic slogans that underpin these demonstrations -significantly different from those of previous protests-, together with strong international media coverage and police repression that, far from intimidating citizens, seems to encourage them to continue, have made these revolts what a large part of Iranians see as their great opportunity to overthrow -or at least transform- the regime of Ali Hoseini Khamenei. This is how young activist Elika Joubari explained it to Atalayar.

What is your relationship with Iran?

I was born here, in Spain, but my family comes from Iran. It was my father who first came to Spain, more than 40 years ago, and after he married my mother, she came too. Leaving the country at that time was completely different, but now, in the last few years, every time we go back to Iran I keep receiving questions about how I did it, if I know a lawyer who can arrange the papers for them, what the conditions are... The paperwork is so complicated and Iranian money has so little value in any other country that it is almost impossible for ordinary people to leave the country. 

My friends and all my family are still there. And I go back to Iran every year in the summer. 

How did you - the Iranian population - perceive the arrival of the Islamic Republic in the country?

Well, before the dictatorship of this Iranian regime there was Mohamed Reza Pahlaví, the son of Reza Sah and the last Shah. Reza Sah imposed a rather Western, one might say "more European", lifestyle on both men and women, and I think he even forbade women to wear veils. 

When Khomeni came to power everything changed very drastically. Now it's almost the opposite, it feels like people have no freedom. It feels like they are oppressed. Also, since the regime came into power, inflation and unemployment have increased a lot, and the quality of life has been getting worse and worse. In my family, for example, my grandfather was a footballer during the sah era, and he even played for an American team. Now that's almost out of anyone's mind. A match [of rather local teams] between Iran and America. International relations are something that has also been affected a lot.

Before these latest protests, what was the situation like in the country, were there cases of peaceful resistance or subversion? 

Before, there were also revolts, such as those in 2019 over the rising price of oil. And peaceful resistance as well. For example, I remember the case of two women who went around the Tehran metro without a veil or anything else, handing out chocolate bars to other women and telling them that "we had to change all this peacefully". Right after their video went viral on the internet they were arrested, and are now in jail. Still detained, as far as we know. 

There is also the case of Nasrin Sotoudeh [Iranian lawyer and human rights activist] who was very well known. When she was arrested there were a lot of protests, but because many of the women who protested at that time were arrested, they were very afraid, and ended up staying at home again. 

And what was the situation for women like?

One of the most important things is that when we were there all women had to wear veils in public areas. It doesn't matter if you are Iranian or not. Also, singing and dancing in public places is forbidden for women, although men are allowed to do it, and although Iranian women who already live there usually walk alone in the street, young girls or those of us who don't live there don't usually do it, in many cases because their parents don't let them. Or, if they do go alone, they do it with a lot of fear. For example, when I go to Iran, I always go accompanied.

Leisure time there almost always takes place at home, in private places, because the streets are not like here in Spain. When you go to the city centre you can do it, but not in the same way: you get compliments in a much more aggressive way, they can abuse you... You can't enjoy yourself in the same way. You don't have that "comfort", that "freedom". 

Now, with the perspective of three months of protests, we see the demonstrations with different eyes, but how were they experienced at the beginning?

At the beginning, I think we all thought that it could be just another protest. Like all those that have taken place in recent years. But when I did a first interview for television where I asked for my face to be censored - so that I could return at some point to see my family in Iran - and then, two weeks later, they called me again but to do an uncensored interview, we realised that it was something different. There had been an evolution in the situation in the country. There were many more deaths than Mahsa Amini. I had to do it, it was the least I could do from here. Now me and my family are watching all the time, all day long on our mobile phones, following the news, following how things are going there. 

What is the Iranian media's version of the whole situation?

They don't say anything. In fact, [before the executions of convicts began] their version of many of the deaths of women, men, and all the young boys and girls who were killed [in the protests], was that they committed suicide or had a heart attack. Things that have nothing to do with the government. 

Forced TV confessions of protestors on Iran's state TV is nothing new especially after the death of #MahsaAmini, but this time the evidence was noticed. In tonight's news broadcast, the shadow of a person can be observed in the background whispering 'say it you piece of dirt'. pic.twitter.com/jqUdUTQ4qw

— Siavash Ardalan (@BBCArdalan) October 6, 2022

At first, from here, from Western countries, we received information that the profile of the demonstrators leading the protests was more of young people, university students. But this changed after a short time.

Yes, now almost everyone is protesting and is on the streets. Although at first these protests were carried out by young people, when adults saw that this was just going on and on, that these were not just one-week revolts, they ended up joining in as well. Many elderly women, for example, posted videos on the internet saying that they had worn veils all their lives, but that in support of the Iranian women who are fighting, they were going to take them off. And in the video itself they take it off, after almost a lifetime of wearing it. It is touching.

However, much of my family there has not joined because they are still very afraid. One of my friends there, who went out on the streets during the first few days, told us that the police were shooting [at the protesters] and she had to run and take shelter in a tent. But I think this is going to be a progressive thing, that people are going to continue to unite little by little, and more and more. 

And the role of women in these protests, what has it been like?

The role of women is fundamental, because they are the symbol of these protests. And even more so because there is not just one woman leading the protests, but all of them. Equally. And not only in Iran, but in almost all parts of the world [from where they support these revolts]. 

Since the uprisings started, women have started to take off their veils in the streets as a symbol of courage and power. That they are present. For example, a few weeks ago, one of my cousins sent me a picture of her walking down the street without her veil. When I asked her how she could do that, she replied that it is very normal now. "If I don't do anything violent, if I don't shout anything against Khamenei, they won't say anything to me". That is being a very positive thing.

But understanding feminism in these uprisings is complicated, because feminism in Iran is complicated. For many years, when proposals were made to change things, they were not listened to. They were a very small group. Very few. And they were told to shut up. But now we are seeing how the group is growing more and more, and I think things can change. 

We also have to talk about the role of men in these protests, because it is very important. They are protesting alongside women. Some of them for other reasons, including economic ones, but many of them are asking for more rights for women. And many have died. It is showing that these revolts, where women are obviously more protagonists, there is also support from men.

Given this situation, what has been the response of the demonstrators to the regime's repression?

In general, there is a lot of violence in Iran right now. In recent weeks, protesters have invented homemade weapons to defend themselves, because this is the only way they can hold their own against the regime's police, who are the ones with the "legal" weapons. That's why the demonstrators set fire to their cars, to the cars of the police, fill glass bottles with rice and throw them... They try to defend themselves. 

How does your family live this situation there, and the rest of your acquaintances, is there an atmosphere of suspicion?

My family is having a very hard time. Both my relatives in Iran and my parents here. We are informed all day long. It's very hard to see my mother crying over the execution of a young man, or to think of my aunt in Iran who goes to work every day a few streets away from places where there are riots and shootings. 

On the atmosphere with the rest of the people, it is impressive how many people, since the protests started, we have been discovering are more pro-government. And they may have been the ones we have trusted all our lives, who we assumed were not sympathetic to the regime. And suddenly we see that when the protests start, they stay on the sidelines, they don't do anything, they don't say anything. And we become suspicious. And then we see that yes, many of them turn out to be pro-regime.

Obviously, after that we don't talk to them any more. Not because they are going to tell on us, but because of the feeling of betrayal of all the efforts of people of their own nation. This uprising is very much a group thing, very much a collective thing, and so there is a kind of rejection of anyone who doesn't want to be part of it. 

So, in your opinion, what are the main objectives of the protests now?

I think the objective is already for the regime to fall. The whole regime. And that after having had such a bad time, that the freedoms that [Iranians] want to have, that they are fighting to have, come. That there is a democracy. 

Many people initially thought that the aim of the protests was not to wear the veil and that's it. Probably because they heard the slogan "Woman, life, freedom. Man, Homeland, Progress" [In Persian, original, "زن زندگی آزادی. مرد میهن ابادی."]. But what a large part of the Iranian people want, is for [Iran] to be integrated into society. For international relations with other countries to return, whether in trade, diplomacy or politics, because Iran is isolated from the whole world. They want freedom for information to enter and leave the country, and, on the other hand, also freedom for women to be freer, to dress as they want, to enjoy the streets without fear... All those things that are now, in a way, forbidden. 

Do you think all this is possible?

I would like to think so. But we have to keep talking about this issue so that something can happen. Because if we all shut up now, suddenly everything will go back to normal. But if we keep talking, fighting with the UN, with the international organisations, little by little we will be able to achieve something. The regime will be overthrown. 

Otherwise, if nothing changes in Iran, I, and the dozens of activists who have made our image public, will not be able to return to the country where our family is. If people have been arrested there just for uploading stories, here, we, who have been uncovering our faces as time goes by, who hoped for real change, we need something to happen. We need things to change.