Rogelio Núñez: "The relationship between Iran and Venezuela is a marriage of convenience between two international stinkers"

In the latest edition of "De Cara al Mundo" on Onda Madrid, we had the participation of Rogelio Núñez, a researcher at the Real Instituto Elcano and PhD in Contemporary Latin American History from the Instituto Universitario de Investigación Ortega y Gasset at the Universidad Complutense de Madrid, who gave us the keys to the proliferation of left-wing governments in Latin America. 

Do the military manoeuvres by Russia, China and Iran in Latin American countries mean that they are taking sides at this time of confrontation with the United States in the European Union?

Evidently yes, because they are with countries that are in direct confrontation with the United States, such as Nicaragua and Venezuela. We have to recognise that the US and Venezuela are making a series of very interesting rapprochements because they can break with the dynamics that have been followed until now, everything is very changeable and volatile both in Latin America and in the world. In the same way, they are indeed gestures with a high level of symbolism.

Can we think that in recent years there has been a concerted strategy prepared by someone to bring the left to power in these countries? Of course, each country has its singularities, but in the last few months we have been talking about Peru, Chile, Colombia, Honduras, we will see what happens in Brazil... Is there a strategy orchestrated by someone, through social networks and conflicts in the streets, to change these governments?

I assure you that no, obviously there will be groups that will have more presence in networks and will seek to have more or less influence, but what is happening in Latin America, which I do not describe as a shift to the left, is that there are many and varied lefts, sometimes they are even incompatible. What we have been seeing in Latin America for almost 10 years is a permanent state of "pissed off", and this unrest is being directed through the ballot box at those in power.  Ten years ago, it was fundamentally to vote against left-wing governments and there was a period of the arrival of right-wing leaders with different conditions such as Bolsonaro, Piñera, Kuczynski, etc. .... as these governments have not produced good results, this anger, which is increasing, is directed at those in power, who at the moment are the right and the centre-right. Hence the different and very changeable lefts are coming to power. There is no conspiracy behind these developments, but rather a growing unease among citizens. 

What we observe in Madrid is that many businessmen from these countries are seeking refuge in Spain...

It is true that the situation is one of enormous instability and uncertainty, above all. To be a little optimistic, although the region is in a very complicated situation, we have to recognise that both the Boric and Petro governments are sending out signals of calm to both the economic right and to society. For the moment they have appointed quite orthodox Finance Ministers, they have appointed a series of other ministers in other areas who follow a more reformist line than very much to the left. The gestures are reassuring, but the fact is that apart from being very broad coalitions, which also include the more radical sectors, the situation is very complex.

Perhaps the political parties, both left and right, are making use of populism and demagogy because the citizens are upset...

You are making a very good analysis, I would like to qualify one point about the problems faced by political parties in Latin America. Political parties are practically pulverised in all countries, look at the fact that in the last Colombian elections Rodolfo Hernández didn't even have a political party and he didn't even run a campaign, he did it all through Tiktok and social networks. However, Petro led a huge coalition of small social forces, some of which were parties, but which really had little roots. There are no political parties and that is a major problem because that is precisely what Western, liberal democracies are based on, on parties. 

What is Iran looking for in Latin America or, on the contrary, is it Venezuela that is looking for Iran?

Evidently it is a marriage of convenience between two countries that ideologically have nothing to do with each other but are against the United States, and that is where they have found each other. The two countries are also isolated and that has been another meeting point, since they need each other and it is a very old relationship that goes back to the time of Hugo Chávez. On the other hand, the oil factor obviously links them, but as I say, it is a marriage of convenience between two "international stinkers". 

As far as Spain is concerned, the political weight it had a few years ago has unfortunately diminished, Spanish companies continue to bet and invest in Latin America, but do we need to recover greater weight and presence in Latin America?

Politically speaking, Spain has lost a lot of weight in the region, but it is true that, from a business, social and cultural point of view, it is still a great power. I would like to remind you that the era in which Spain invested in Latin America is over, we continue to invest in Latin America, but it is also Latin America that is investing heavily in Spain. Obviously, I am not going to reveal anything to readers when I say that Spain has been going through a multifaceted crisis for many years and when you are weak at home it is difficult to be strong abroad. Spain has had enormous problems for many years in forming a government, and this fact, added to the economic crises, means that we are losing strength outside our borders. Moreover, Spain has less and less to offer Latin America because it has to find its role in the region, politically speaking, and I believe that Spain has not yet found what it can offer Latin America. 

Are you surprised that in recent years the United States has not been concerned, at least in the way it used to be, with its own backyard, which is Latin America?

Yes, it is somewhat surprising, but the recent Summit of the Americas has once again shown how limited and tight the US agenda is. I understand that the Biden Administration is concerned about the issue of migration, from a human point of view and from the point of view of internal security it is more than worrying, but focusing everything on migration policy is a mistake. What migration policy is sending us is a message that there are serious structural problems in Latin American countries that are driving the citizens of those countries to emigrate. As long as these structural problems are not solved, anything that is done in terms of migration policy will be a stopgap.