Carlos Sainz Sr.: "The Dakar is unique, it's very different from any other event!"

Double world rally champion and three-time winner of the Dakar Rally, Carlos Sainz has the right to be one of the best drivers in the history of motorsport. Although he may be best known to the younger generation of motorsport fans as the father of Ferrari's Formula 1 star Carlos Sainz Jr., his track record speaks for itself and clearly makes him a true rallying legend whose achievements have spanned decades and captivated a global audience. 

As "El Matador" prepares to take part in the Dakar Rally with Audi again next January - the world's most famous endurance race will be held for the fifth consecutive time in the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia - we found time to catch up with the 61-year-old to talk about how he first got involved in motorsport, his experience of competing in the Dakar, the value of Saudi Arabia as a venue and how he felt when his son won the 2023 F1 Singapore Grand Prix...

You had a talent for sports as a youngster, both as a national squash champion and as a footballer who caught the eye of Real Madrid, so why did you decide to take up motorsport? Where did your interest start?

I always had a passion for cars from an early age, and I had a small go-kart that I used to play with. But what really sparked my interest was when, when I was 11, my sister met her future husband, who was a very good rally driver. I started to follow the rallies he was participating in, and soon after, my brother, who was four years older than me, also started to compete in rallies.

But you're right, sport was highly valued at my school, I played tennis and squash, becoming Spanish champion. I also played a lot of football, especially between the ages of 14 and 18. I used to play as a number five or in the centre of the pitch. But as soon as I got my driving licence, I started competing in rallies, as that was where my passion lay.

What advice would you give to young drivers who look up to you and want to get behind the wheel - should they consider following in your footsteps and look at other sports first? 

I would say that having a sporting background helped my fitness when I was behind the wheel, and it still does. Squash is a great sport. If I had to recommend a sport to someone to help them get fit to compete in motorsport, I would say squash is the best option. You need to be very fit from a cardiovascular point of view. You need good hand-eye coordination, good reflexes, 360-degree peripheral vision and good reactions. Squash helped me to get in good physical condition for when I started driving.

But the other aspect I had was the mission to win. As my brother was four years older than me, I played a lot of sports with him and he always beat me. But that motivated me a lot to keep practising and improving so I could beat him one day. All of that probably put me in a good position to be competitive when I started racing.

After your successful career, in which you won the World Rally Championship with Toyota in 1990 (and were runner-up four times), did competing in the Dakar Rally still seem to satisfy your interest in the sport?

One thing has been clear to me since I was very young and that continued with the way I approached my career in the world championship: my passion for motorsport was extremely high. My dreams of achieving different goals in my life, along with my self-confidence, were also high.

When I decided to stop driving in the World Rally Championship, in that last year I still triumphed in Argentina, and we won the manufacturers' title with Citroën. Then I wanted to become the first Spaniard to win the Dakar in cars and, luckily, a few years later I did it.

I think life is about dreams, goals and passion. This morning I woke up disappointed because of the previous rally I did in Morocco. But I went to the gym, put it behind me and started my physical preparation for the Dakar.

I am still motivated because my passion is strong and I want to keep on succeeding. I still want to do a good job, even though I am now what you could call a "veteran" driver.

You won your first two Dakar rallies in 2010 and 2018 in South America, before winning a third title in 2020 in Saudi Arabia. What is the difference between the Dakar and the World Rally Championship?

The Dakar is unique, it is very different from any other event. First of all, the duration is two weeks and that makes it really tough. The challenge of driving for four or five hours a day - blind, because you've never been on the road before - at the speed we're going, makes the challenge really high. To give you an idea, your heart rate is 140-165 bpm for four hours straight. So physically it's very demanding. That's why I prefer to suffer every day in my home gym, so I suffer a little less when I'm in the event!

All these combinations, the endurance factor, the challenge of driving and the lack of sleep in a difficult environment mean that, if you are not well prepared, your performance will suffer after a few days. If you think about who can realistically win the Dakar, probably only three or four riders are capable of taking overall victory. Other riders will win individual stages, but it's another thing to be able to fight for two weeks. That's what makes the Dakar a special competition.

How different are the conditions and terrain in the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia compared to South America, and what do you like about the variety of terrain and landscape on today's Dakar?

After Africa and South America, the Dakar has been in Saudi Arabia for four years. It is a great country to host the rally, as it is a perfect environment to host such a demanding event. We were very lucky that Saudi Arabia hosted the Dakar after the end of the South American events.

The good thing about the place is that you have the desert, a good combination of terrain - gravel, rocks, sand dunes - while retaining the same characteristics of the rally from its past, when it was held in North Africa. The marriage between Dakar and Saudi Arabia could not be better for the competitors. Moreover, Saudi Arabia does a great job of hosting so many motorsport activities, whether it is Formula E, Formula 1 or Extreme E as well.

Having participated in every edition of the Dakar Rally in Saudi Arabia for the past four years, and now that you are returning for the fifth time, what has surprised you most about the Kingdom?

First of all, I would say that there is a big change today compared to the first time I visited the country: it is much more open and progressive. The people of Saudi Arabia are very welcoming and it is clear that they are making an effort to internationalise. There are certain things you have to respect in any country, with respect to local customs and traditions, and Saudi Arabia is no different in that respect. Besides, I always feel very welcome there.

Today there are more successful female riders taking part in the Dakar, such as Saudi rider Dania Akeel and Spain's Cristina Gutiérrez and Laia Sanz. The latter competes in her ACCIONA I SAINZ XE team in Extreme E. How do you think the landscape is changing for women in motorsport and what more needs to be done from your point of view?

Depending on the category, motorsport has not traditionally been easy for women to participate in, but Extreme E has been a fantastic example of how women can perform at a very high level. Extreme E offers a great opportunity for women to compete at the same level as men. There has been no other discipline in motorsport that offers the same example. I think Extreme E is an excellent category to allow women to take the next step into other avenues, of which the Dakar is a good example. It's not an easy transition, because of the physicality of the rally, but women drivers have shown that they can do it.

You became the oldest winner of the Dakar Rally in 2020 in the inaugural event in Saudi Arabia. How do you continue to stay fit and competitive at this stage of your career?

You have to be in top physical condition to be able to perform for five hours, at full attack, for up to two weeks. You have to know yourself well, know when you perform at a certain level at a certain age. You have to be aerobically strong because of the high heart rates you get when riding in extreme conditions at high speed for a long time.

Just as important as cardiovascular strength is muscular strength. You must have a strong neck and back. And, in general, the whole body, because of the many bumps and jumps you hit on the road for long periods of time and over many days. When you are a veteran rider like me, you know your body well, but at the same time you need to prepare yourself more than when you were younger, so it's not easy.

What are your prospects for the Dakar with Audi again in 2024, do you think you will be more competitive this year?

We think we have worked in the right direction with the suspension, which was one of the key points to improve. But another factor is the extra 15kW we will get, because when you look at the data, at our weight we accelerate less than the competition because we are 100kg heavier, so the extra power will compensate for that.

It's a very positive thing, because I've been pushing for this for the last two years. As you know, the two keys to motorsport are weight and power, and if you have the same power, but 100kg more, you're not going to be as competitive as your rivals. Next year, with a bit more power, if we can control the reliability, we will have a strong team to compete with and hopefully get a good result.

Finally, are you proud to see your son Carlos at Ferrari and what was the tension you felt in the final laps of the Singapore Grand Prix when he took victory?

I wasn't at the Singapore race, as I watched it from Sardinia because we were there with Extreme E. First of all, I was very happy for him and very proud. Throughout the weekend he looked really good, he was fast in practice and qualifying, and the way he handled the race was great. He was incredible in those last five laps, knowing that his only chance of winning was to give DRS to Lando Norris behind him [Drag Reduction System].

Not only was he smart to think about it, but he was brave enough to try the trick, because if he got it wrong he would have looked ridiculous. So the way he looked in the mirrors and calculated on every lap how to execute it in the perfect way to maintain the gap resulted in a very special win and obviously I was very happy.

Considering his track experience, for many years people thought that rally drivers were wild, that they drove sideways, but the precision you need both on tarmac and in rallies is at a very high level. You need good control, and you can't compare F1 with rallying. The latter is really difficult. I've always had a lot of respect for rally drivers, just as I do for Formula 1 drivers...

Courtesy of Saudi Motorsport Company