Villar: "With all the problems we had 30 years ago, what is happening now with indoor football is an anecdote”

Ángel María Villar (Bilbao, 1950) lives away from the noise of the media. He already did so during the 30 years he presided over the Royal Spanish Football Federation (RFEF). Not making friends in the media and staying in office for that long may have been what brought him down. Or maybe it is all that he was accused of. The television verdict is already there. Like so many others. Justice will one day be the judge of how he managed his years in office. We will see if actions speak louder than noise. One thing he will never let go is the 2010 Spanish World Cup or the two European Championships. Although the first big title was the Under-19 World Cup in Nigeria in 1999. Neither will he forget his success in futsal. Villar is part of the best history of Spanish football. 

He meets Atalayar to talk about futsal. After several phone calls and texts exchanged with intermediaries, he agrees to talk about Futsal, but he does not want to talk about it over the phone. There is a lot to discuss, a lot to remember, too many facts to offer to those who are now fighting for the same sport. Futsal was under attack more than 30 years ago, like that child with two mothers at the trial of King Solomon. Villar was the president who had to make decisions to unravel the judicial tangle to which futsal had been subjected.  

We find out from the face-to-face that his concern for indoor football comes from afar. In his agenda for the presidency of the Basque federation he already talked about this sport in point 11. In 1982, when he was already president, he made the rules for the children's and infant competitions public. Villar holds and remembers everything. Futsal also appears in his candidacy for the presidency of UEFA in 1988. Another document he keeps and shares for the interview.   

Everything would have been different if, when he hung up his boots in 1981, he had been able to go to the United States to finish his legal training. It was not possible. But that was no obstacle to his being an inexhaustible source of legal, administrative and sporting knowledge at the age of 70. He wanted to talk about indoor football from a deep insight. Before the interview, he prepared six pages with memories of the late 1980s. Names, positions, processes, sentences, courts... but also players and coaches who won two World Cups and seven European Cups under his mandate. He apologises in advance if he forgets anyone because there were many protagonists who gave in for the good of the sport. The result was very good for the national team, but also for the clubs.  Now the RFEF and the LNFS live in confrontation and that will take its toll on futsal in 2021 when Spain will return to a World Cup.  

How did futsal begin to be organised in Spain? 

The Spanish Football Federation (RFEF) began to organise futsal championships in 1979 with Pablo Porta as president. It seems that the relationship was not entirely correct towards one sector of futsal and some teams distanced themselves from the federation, although other clubs remained. Those which separated formed the Spanish Futsal Federation (FEFS) whose association of clubs was ASOFUSA, while in the RFEF the clubs were represented by the Spanish Association of Futsal Clubs (AECFS) with José Manuel Gózalo as president.  

What led to the controversy between the teams of José María García (Interviú) and Juan Manuel Gozalo (Unión Sport)? 

I don't think that García and certain clubs left the RFEF because of their sporting disagreements with Gozalo and others alike. But the fact is that they split up and leave because they believe that the federation failed to give them good service.

What is the path of the FEFS? 

It was a group led by Antonio Alberca and Teodosio Carbonell. They constituted the FEFS whose lawyer was Germán Rodríguez Conchado. On April 22nd 1982 they presented in the register of associations of the CSD the application for the recognition of the FEFS as another sports federation. Pablo Porta was the president of the RFEF and Romá Cuyás of the The High Sports Council (CSD).

It should be recalled that the second world championship of the International Federation of Futsal (FIFUSA) was played in Spain in 1985 with the participation of 12 national futsal associations and was held in 15 cities. At first it was supported by the Spanish administration, but it was later withdrawn because of Barcelona's bid for the 1992 Olympic Games. FIFUSA (Futsal International Federation) was not recognised by the International Olympic Committee (IOC) and this fact could be detrimental to Barcelona's bid. The President of FIFUSA was the Brazilian Juanero D'Alessio. The World Cup final was held at the Palacio de los Deportes in Madrid and was broadcast by TVE.

This World Cup was highly controversial because the games were being broadcast. The CSD considered the championship illegal because it was organized by FIFUSA and RTVE even refused to broadcast the matches because "indoor football was not of interest" according to a statement by the Public Body.  

Why didn't there ever be a futsal federation? 

In those years, I was president of the Biscayan football federation. After the application was submitted by the FEFS manager, the CSD decided not to register this federation. The Secretary of State asked for a report from the RFEF as it was mandatory, and the latter decided not to set up the FEFS. At that time, in order to constitute a federation, the opinion of the RFEF was needed, because the RFEF's sporting activity also included the management, organisation and promotion of futsal in Spain.  

This federation manager presented two appeals to the Spanish courts. One appeal was on the substance of the case: they wanted to know if they had the right to constitute a federation, if it was a different modality from football and if article 22 of the Spanish Constitution, which includes the right to associate, was applied or not. They lost that appeal. They again appealed to the Supreme Court and also lost it.  

The FEFS based the second appeal on the prescription. They considered that more than 6 months had passed from the moment they applied for registration to the resolution of the CSD. The application was made in early 1982 and the CSD decision was issued in November of that year. Due to administrative silence, the CSD was obliged to register it. This second appeal was won by the FEFS, but the CSD appealed to the Supreme Court and the FEFS was again found to be in favour.

On 4 February 1986, four years after the application, the FEFS was born. The CSD had to register it in the register of sports associations under number 54 for the execution of the judgment. On 4 December of that year the EOC, chaired by Mr Carlos Ferrer Salat, recognised and admitted the FEFS as a full member. This made the RFEF very angry.  

Were there any further attempts to form a futsal federation? 

Yes, on 22nd June 2004 Eufemiano Martínez de Etxeita once again submitted an application for membership of the FEFS on behalf of its management board. It was rejected by the CSD by resolution of 22 June 2004. The management company appeals this decision to the courts, but the CSD, whose president was Antonio Gómez Angulo, is found to be right. The RFEF gave the CSD a negative report on the constitution.  

What kind of indoor football do you play when you become president of the RFEF? 

I became president of the federation at the end of July 1988. Shortly before that, Javier Gómez Navarro was appointed President of the CSD. The first thing I do is find out about the situation of futsal that I had experienced as a Roca manager in the RFEF between 1984 and 1988.  

I start to get to know the men of futsal and find a terrible disaffection increased by the legal proceedings that had taken place. I recognise that the pioneers of the FEFS and members of the RFEF were instrumental in finding a solution to the situation because I believed they were lovers of futsal. I am not opposed to Alberca or Carbonell. I fight for the unity of futsal. The work of José María García was very positive. He had Manuel Saorín as president of his club, there was also the activity of José Manuel Gozalo... there were several very important actors.  

We had two contradictory sentences from the Supreme Court about the FEFS. The one of inscription, in favor of this one, and another one against on the fund of his request. Then we submitted an appeal for a review to the Supreme Court because we could not continue to live like this. It was terrible. There was already a movement of unity between the two associations, ASOFUSA and ACEFS. They had appointed a manager to work in the unit and announced that they were going to start competing.  

Then comes the sentence. 

Yes, in 1990 the RFEF won the appeal for review before the Supreme Court. The ruling said that the RFEF should be de-registered. The CSD was forced to abide by the Supreme Court's decision. 

How did the National Indoor Football League (LNFS) come into being? 

In 1989 the LNFS was constituted with a management company that was temporarily chaired by Saorín and Gozalo. Later, the LNFS was formed as a result of ASOFUSA and ACEFS. The LNFS was not part of the RFEF or the FEFS. It was aware that everyone had to give up something. There was a lot of protagonism on both sides.   

The LNFS was constituted on the 18th of August 1989 because indoor football had to be united and this initiative was a good beginning. In the first elections of the LNFS, ex-player Aurelio Gómez Araújo, "Yeyo", was elected president from 1989 to 2000. Then came Antonio Franco from 2000 to 2003, then Santiago Márquez from 2003 to 2006, then Carlos Gascón from 2006 to 2009, and finally Javier Lozano from 2009 until now. The LNFS became part of the RFEF and was recognised as an organ of the RFEF. This brought about the modification of the statutes and regulations. Its relationship with the RFEF was made through an agreement.  

What was this agreement about? 

The first framework agreement with the LNFS was signed for six seasons (1999-2005) at the RFEF headquarters. We signed it, Yeyo as president of the LNFS and I as president of the RFEF. Economic, administrative and competition competences are agreed upon...  

It was renewed with Márquez from 2005 to 2009. With Lozano from 2009 to 2013. It was renewed from 2013 to 2017. I was going to renew it in 2017, but it remained unsigned due to my suspension and dismissal as president of the RFEF. With all the problems we had 30 years ago, what is happening now with indoor football is an anecdote.

What were the LNFS's obligations? 

The LNFS recognised that the highest authority on futsal in Spain was the RFEF and this is documented. Futsal was supervised by the RFEF and it was the LNFS that was in charge of the organization and management, the sale of television rights, the calendar (respecting the matches in Spain and the six days prior to an official match concentration). In addition, the LNFS sent a delegate when the Spanish team played. I even appointed Javier Lozano as a member of the Board of Directors, something that was not in the agreement. There was one member of the LNFS on that board and four others were on the board of the Comité Nacional de Fútbol Sala (CNFS), including the vice-president. The referees' committee was made up of members of the RFEF and the LNFS. The LNFS and the CNFS had to be heard when appointing national coaches. By the way, they both spoke very well of Javier Lozano and José Venancio.  

It was agreed that the RFEF would subsidise the futsal clubs with PTA 50 million in travel expenses. In addition, it was agreed that futsal would receive PTA 45 million, PTA 35 million and PTA 25 million respectively for the first three seasons which the LNFS would spend on basic futsal. I have not audited the money given to futsal because the LNFS clubs gave more to futsal than they received. I have always let it go. The LNFS was also helped with a registered office.  

What did the domicile assistance consist of? 

The headquarters was bought when I was president of the RFEF and the LNFS owned it. Then the federation bought the building and subrogated itself to the mortgage. He gave the building to futsal in precarious condition.

Was the agreement changed over the years? 

The agreement was modified in a few things. The money issue, if anything. For the 2017 agreement I had already prepared a draft that was almost the same as the previous one. The LNFS was a small federation within the RFEF. The federation made a contribution to futsal and it was managed by the LNFS. For the last agreement, the LNFS asked me for financial support for its management and this had to be negotiated.  

And what role did the RFEF play in futsal? 

The RFEF created the National Futsal Committee (CNFS) in 1994 to organise the sport in the other categories. Its development had to be complete. Futsal is the thousands of players of all categories in all corners of Spain. Futsal had to be promoted, new referees had to be trained, titles of coaches had to be awarded, the number of clubs, teams and players had to be increased... a great field to be developed. But it was taken into account that Futsal includes all LNFS clubs as well as the rest of the clubs in others. Futsal is structured on the basis of article 18 of the statutes and book 20 of the general rules. This promotional function is very important in any sporting activity. It is true that the external image of futsal is given by the big clubs and the national teams. 

How was futsal organised in the other categories? 

In the agreement of 21 February 1992 between the RFEF and the LNFS, with the agreement of Javier Gómez Navarro's CSD, the competence and ownership of the RFEF for the regulation and development of official futsal competitions is derived. This agreement recognizes and integrates the LNFS into the RFEF and creates a new body, the CNFS.  

How do you evaluate the union? 

They were integrated into FIFA and UEFA. Our indoor football at club and national team level is among the best in the world. They have a great model of organisational structure desired and copied by other national federations. In short, it is exemplary in its organisational structure. When I arrived there were three thousand referees, now there are ten thousand. Specific titles of coaches were given. When I left the RFEF there were about 11,000 titles and 500 were in the top category of indoor football. Competitions were held at all levels in all territorial areas.  

I have been the chairman of the UEFA Futsal Committee for eight years. I also chaired the FIFA referees' committee for eleven years so I was also responsible for futsal referees. At the head of the RFEF in my period we increased the player licences from about 20.000 in 1989 to 120.000 in 2017.  

I think we more than achieved our goals. Everyone did their job and managed to come together in difficult times. The progress of futsal in Spain and the world was achieved. It was a great challenge. And I thank everyone for helping me. To the CSD, who worked for the unit, to the clubs, to the FEFS, players, referees, coaches, RFEF... We were all necessary, nobody indispensable. I sincerely wish the current managers to improve and achieve sporting success for futsal. May they give their best.  

How did you work on the specific refereeing for futsal? 

The referees of the two federations joined together and became part of the LNFS. At first there were about 400 referees. The president was Antón Iturralde, then Fermín Sánchez Molina. In 2005, the Technical Committee of Futsal Referees was created within the National Committee of Football Referees and Pedro Galán was appointed president. Within the organisation they are classified and qualified. Initially, the 11-a-side football referees were to referee the world championships. In 1999 it was Soriano Ladren and in 1992 Ansuátegui Roca. Then Pedro Galán was at the World Cups in Spain, Guatemala and Taipei. Then Roberto Gracia went to Brazil. In Thailand, Fernando Gutiérrez was refereeing the final between Argentina and Russia. Referees in Spanish futsal are highly regarded at international level. 

What do you remember about the Futsal World Cup organised by Spain in 1996? 

It was played in Segovia, Murcia, Castellón and Barcelona. It cost a lot of millions of the old pesetas. There were a lot of expenses. The tickets didn't cover and the television revenues were for FIFA. Some city councils were subsidized for being the host city... but the RFEF had to put in a lot of resources. The final was held in Barcelona and was presided over by Joao Havelange. FIFA took advantage of that final to hold an executive committee.  

In Granada we organized the European Championship that same year, also contributing a lot of resources. It was not official, it was informal. We asked UEFA to allow us to give it a similar name to give it a higher profile. After our experience, UEFA held the first European Championship in 1999, which was already official. The FIFA World Cup held in Spain was a great success, both in terms of level and play, and in terms of organisation. In the final that Brazil won against us, the Palau Sant Jordi was filled with the whole audience cheering our team. It was a pity we didn't get the first world championship in Barcelona. Javier Lozano and the players were at a very high level in the final and throughout the championship.  

What about the World Cup in Guatemala in 2000? 

I remember exactly what happened. I was to the right of Joseph Blatter, the President of FIFA, at the final. I remember Javi Rodriguez's performance, who scored two goals, and the group of people who were there. It meant that we became world champions, which is an example to follow, because after a break-up, we were united and this produced progress in futsal that made us world champions after 10 years. We were 16 years finalists in the world championship. If futsal had been divided, I don't think we would have won the World and European Championships for national teams or the European Club Championships.  

What lessons do you draw from that? 

We organised a World Cup in 1996 and two European ones, in 1996 and 1999. We spent thousands of pesetas and euros. Then we built a pavilion in Las Rozas worth almost 700 million pesetas. In the days of Porta and Roca, the national team was launched when there were no official championships in international organisations, with very significant costs. More personal and material resources were put at the service of the indoor football teams.  

At the beginning there were those international 11-a-side football veterans who played indoor football. They promoted it and we have to thank them because it was what they had and they needed to show it. Later on, we had to look for sports profiles and not for people over 40. My theory is that indoor football is a specialty of football.  

Then came magnificent players of a very high level who were also modest players. They formed a great group. Luis Amado, Javi Rodríguez, Javi Sánchez, Kike, Jordi Torrás, Ortiz, Julio García Mera... They formed a great group in every season of the national teams with great sporting success. They went to almost every friendly and official match. The greatest share of success in futsal is due to the players and coaches. There is a 5% of that success that is the work of the managers, which is necessary.  

What memories do you have of the coaches in Spain? 

I have very good memories of all the coaches. Mostly three: Teodoro Nieto, Javier Lozano and José Venancio. Teodoro was in the Spanish national football team since 1982 when Pablo Porta recruited him and he played the first match of our national team against Italy. He also continued with Roca. I knew him before he became president. When I arrived at the Spanish Federation, Teodoro went to the 1989 World Cup in Holland. He had an extraordinary activity. He spent a few years combining his activity as a futsal coach with being a women's coach. All his matches at the beginning were friendly. He was a man who knew very well the futsal because he was a scholar. I had a very good relationship with him.  

Then came Lozano, who spent 16 years with us. He came because after the 1989 World Cup there was a change to be made. We named Felipe Ojeda, "Trona", one year and he was not renewed. He played friendly matches, most of them against Brazil because of a tour we organized. He occupied the transition period between Teodoro and Lozano. I chose Lozano because in the world of indoor football they told you that he was the most suitable. He had a versatile job. He was also director of the RFEF facilities and assistant to Antonio Camacho in the 2002 World Cup in Korea. He projected us to the highest sporting level. Then came Real Madrid and then the presidency of the LNFS. He made us twice world champions in Guatemala and Taipei. Once we were runners-up in Barcelona. And three times European champions. Extraordinary achievements. He got the most that can be achieved with a national team. He worked very well. And he was very considerate of the players.  

When he left for Real Madrid I named José Venancio. The agreements with the LNFS were in force and the CNFS and the LNFS had to be consulted and they told me he was the best. Lozano and Venancio were in the U-18 together. Venancio won two world championships in 2008 and 2012. And he was also European champion four times. He was extremely studious and loved by the players. He did a great job.  Now Federico Vidal has arrived and I wish him a lot of luck in the national team and success in the world championship. I have had some great, committed and very responsible futsal coaches.

Was it difficult to sell indoor football to RTVE? 

I wanted our indoor football team to be televised, and that's why in the negotiations with RTVE I always agreed that the contract for the ordinary football team should also include the indoor football team. We were not paid a penny for the futsal matches, but those matches had to be televised. Futsal, women's and youth matches are in deficit for the RFEF.  

Why did the Futsal King's Cup come about? 

The King's Cup of ordinary football was founded in 1903 and is called the Copa de España and stands for Copa del Rey, del Generalísimo or Copa del presidente de la República... according to the person who will be the head of state. As it is the Spanish championship, most of the clubs in the different categories have to participate, not only the elite teams. A representation of the clubs of amateur football enters.  We consider that the Spanish Cup of the LNFS was of a few clubs and we wanted to give more amplitude to another championship in which more teams will participate. Moreover, the cups are always organised by the federations. The RFEF was missing the King's Cup of indoor football where all national levels participated. I said that there was no point in the Spanish Cup, but it was already in the dynamic and it generated money. As president, I had to strike a balance between sport and the economy. I was looking for the projection of a futsal cup that would be called The King's Cup. And this had to be requested from the Royal House. 

Could futsal ever be an Olympics? 

At that time, with the knowledge we had, we considered that the best development of futsal was in the RFEF. If you want to recognise futsal as an Olympic football now, it has to be through FIFA. An institution like FIFA with the specific weight is not the same as another new federation that has to be integrated into the IOC. 

The RFEF was the best alternative because it led us to UEFA and FIFA. It was a conviction of ours that has had very good results.